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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (28)Posted:Jul 22, 2008-4:33 PM
By: clipton(Member)

The anticlimax of the film mirrors the anticlimax of his life: he was disappointed that he couldn't 'give' the Arabs the self-governance he'd hoped idealistically. So the film's form mirrors that. Should we then mark Lean and Bolt down because they didn't conform to what schoolteachers call 'a good resolution'? They didn't want one.

Now maybe what the people above call 'entertainment' may require some sort of classical resolution to be satisfying. Maybe. Maybe not. But I'm not sure entertainment is the chief aim here. Now that the film is of age and has earned its money, it should perhaps be allowed to stand on more substantial ground, and most would say that it does.

Lawrence has always been by far my favorite film. And, one reason for this - aside from the fact that on virtually every level it's brilliant cinema - is what I see as the tragic arc of the story . . . not an anti-climax. In fact, considering that the film is basically episodic, I don't see how else it could have been structurally, or artistically, resolved. I think this "arc" is one of the many fascinating elements that puts Lawrence in a class of its own.

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (34)Posted:Jul 23, 2008-6:21 AM
By: WILLIAMDMCCRUM(Member)

And, one reason for this - aside from the fact that on virtually every level it's brilliant cinema - is what I see as the tragic arc of the story . . . not an anti-climax. In fact, considering that the film is basically episodic, I don't see how else it could have been structurally, or artistically, resolved. I think this "arc" is one of the many fascinating elements that puts Lawrence in a class of its own.

Yes: if you look at it that way, then the film HAS indeed a 'classical' structure after all, a 'hero' rise-and-fall story, perfectly reflected in what you refer to as the 'arc' of the film. 'Form and content married perfectly.

Another such 'arc' film is Kubrick's 'Barry Lyndon' mentioned by a poster above. That one too is sometimes attacked by people who say it 'drags' and of course it's more predictable than 'Lawrence' because of the nature of the satire in it. But the 'drag' is part of the experience.

I think films are like people. There's little point saying 'That one's too long, this one's too short etc..' They are what they are. Sometimes of course, they need pruning and pacing, but there are many paces possible, and our own preferences for certain speeds etc. aren't absolute.

PS- I think another reason why some folk prematurely dis Larry is that it's a film without ONE SINGLE female character.... except the desert-goddess herself! They miss unconsciously the immediate subliminal hit of a woman's presence! But that adds to the 'dry' quality of the 'clean' desert, and interestingly, 'Lawrence' is one of those not so common epics that women seem to be very fond of. It has a lot of girl fans.

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (39)Posted:Jul 25, 2008-2:57 AM
By: clipton(Member)

And, one reason for this - aside from the fact that on virtually every level it's brilliant cinema - is what I see as the tragic arc of the story . . . not an anti-climax. In fact, considering that the film is basically episodic, I don't see how else it could have been structurally, or artistically, resolved. I think this "arc" is one of the many fascinating elements that puts Lawrence in a class of its own.

Yes: if you look at it that way, then the film HAS indeed a 'classical' structure after all, a 'hero' rise-and-fall story, perfectly reflected in what you refer to as the 'arc' of the film. 'Form and content married perfectly.

Yes, well put. BTW, the "arc" is apparent in two senses: Lawrence's transformation from "clown" to a messiah who can only be killed by a silver bullet -- to a shattered vessel of a man . . . and visually in the transition from his lower rank British officer's uniform, to his spotless, flowing white robes (which he wears while killing - like an angel of death), to these robes becoming filthy and smeared with blood, and with Lawrence himself covered with blood up to his elbow . . . and finally back in his officer's (higher rank)uniform, barely seen, slouched behind the dirty windshield of a jeep. There's also an arc within that arc: as Lawrence goes from a horror of bloodshed . . . to executing Gasim . . . to "no prisoners" -- while, conversely, Ali transforms from a heartless killer of Lawrence's guide at the well . . . to a man horrified by the slaughter of the retreating Turks (and his own involvement), and ultimately becoming cognizant of Lawrence's utter loss of humanity. I'm really giving this whole thing very short shrift here because it's 5:00 A.M.

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (44)Posted:Jul 25, 2008-3:06 AM
By: clipton(Member)

Also, re a poster stating that the Lawrence score is very repetitive: It's actually quite surprising how little music there is in the film -- considering it runs 3 hours and 42 minutes, not counting intermission.

Also, does anyone know the source - if any - of Jarre's main title "British" them? It's one of my favorite pieces of film music -- and unlike any other film music I've heard. Is it based on something else? . . . since it's totally unlike anything else Jarre wrote before or since. Also, contrary to Jarre's negative assessment of Gerard Shurmann's orchestration of the score, I think it worked beautifully with the film.

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (49)Posted:Jul 25, 2008-3:27 AM
By: clipton(Member)

FYI: I don't have time to go into it in detail now, but, I interviewed Robert Harris after he worked with Lean on the "directors cut" of the Lawrence. Harris told me he said to Lean: "David, I've restored every shot in the film" (he actually was missing the last shot of the "no prisoners" sequence); and Lean (who had been considered England's best film editor) said, "Great -- now let's start cutting" . . . and had Harris cut 18 frames from the end of virtually every shot because he was afraid the MTV generation would want a faster paced film. Harris told me that he almost "dropped dead" upon hearing Lean's plan, and then cut out the 18 frames. When you consider Tarrantino's claim that ONE frame can make a big difference re the perfection of a shot, IMHO the 18 frame butchery of Lawrence was a disaster. Ravishing images are now "shots" that go by before the mind's aesthetic mechanism can actually grasp them, and the brilliant rhythm of many sequences is ruined . . . not to mention the film's unique, majestic pace -- that prompted Anne Coates, Lean's co-editor, to state that Lean was the world's bravest film director when it came to holding on a shot. But, at this point in time, it appears no one remembers the original editing of Lawrence -- which Lean said was the result of not having time to finely hone the film before the Royal Command performance. Just check out the last scene of the jeep in the desert, and it's very apparent that the sequence's rhythm is disasterously rushed, almost to the point of visual incoherence -- considering the symbolism involved. What do you do when a director you revere destroys his masterpiece?

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (55)Posted:Jul 25, 2008-6:12 AM
By: WILLIAMDMCCRUM(Member)

Also, re a poster stating that the Lawrence score is very repetitive: It's actually quite surprising how little music there is in the film -- considering it runs 3 hours and 42 minutes, not counting intermission.

Also, does anyone know the source - if any - of Jarre's main title "British" them? It's one of my favorite pieces of film music -- and unlike any other film music I've heard. Is it based on something else? . . . since it's totally unlike anything else Jarre wrote before or since. Also, contrary to Jarre's negative assessment of Gerard Shurmann's orchestration of the score, I think it worked beautifully with the film.

Yes, it's not repetitive really. Each treatment of the main 'desert romance' theme is differently arranged, orchestrated or varied.

I think the theme you refer to, more or less Lawrence's own motif actually, a sort of jaunty eccentric theme, used sometimes in the desert scenes to denote comradeship, was described somewhere, maybe by Jarre, as a theme to invoke Lawrence's 'home' culture. The two themes are the two aspects of the man really. In reading the 'Seven Pillars' and his letters, I got the distinct sense of these two sides of him, alternating between deep mystical aesthete and slightly loopy! The music gets that totally. To my ears though, the theme has hallmarks of pure Jarre, especially in its extension, and development. It's his own, I'm sure.

The other British 'colonialism' theme is 'The Voice of the Guns' by an earlier brass composer who went by the name of Kenneth Alford. (I can't remember his real name.)

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (61)Posted:Jul 25, 2008-6:29 AM
By: WILLIAMDMCCRUM(Member)

BTW, the "arc" is apparent in two senses: Lawrence's transformation from "clown" to a messiah who can only be killed by a silver bullet -- to a shattered vessel of a man . . . and visually in the transition from his lower rank British officer's uniform, to his spotless, flowing white robes (which he wears while killing - like an angel of death), to these robes becoming filthy and smeared with blood, and with Lawrence himself covered with blood up to his elbow . . . and finally back in his officer's (higher rank)uniform, barely seen, slouched behind the dirty windshield of a jeep. There's also an arc within that arc: as Lawrence goes from a horror of bloodshed . . . to executing Gasim . . . to "no prisoners" -- while, conversely, Ali transforms from a heartless killer of Lawrence's guide at the well . . . to a man horrified by the slaughter of the retreating Turks (and his own involvement), and ultimately becoming cognizant of Lawrence's utter loss of humanity. I'm really giving this whole thing very short shrift here because it's 5:00 A.M.

This just goes to show the layering that Bolt and Lean must've done in their long script-jamming sessions. I mean, I hadn't even thought about this 'swapping over' of the sensibilities of Lawrence and Ali, but it's there sure enough, and it would mirror the 'swapping' of psyches that happens in Bolt's 'Bounty' (Oh, if only Lean had done THAT one too!) where Bligh and Christian each become envious of the other, and somehow 'swap' when the go round the Horn.

'Lawrence' always yields more each time it's viewed. I think this has to do with the nature of the material itself, and how these layers emerge and are illuminated by Bolt, as opposed to just crafted from nothing. There was a mercurial interplay between Bolt and Lean, and they thrashed out everything. It must've been electric to eavesdrop!

PS- Ali by the way, was an amalgam of several different characters apart from the historical Ali. One of these was clearly Lawrence's 'muse', an Arab companion who died much earlier, during his archaeological/intelligence expeditions, and to whom 'Seven Pillars' is dedicated. All things considered, there's a love story in the film between Lawrence and Ali. That's how Lawrence was.

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (66)Posted:Jul 25, 2008-2:58 PM
By: clipton(Member)

re WILLIAMDMCCRUM's last two posts: Yes, the main title of Lawrence was referred to as the "home" theme . . . but, it's so "unexpected," and unique - not referencing any other film music I know of; and, to my ears, different from any of Jarre's other compositions - that I've always wondered if it was based on something else -- and I don't mean that in any negative sense. I think the main title is absolutely wonderful . . . one of the pieces of film music that inspired my passion for soundtracks for the past 45 years.

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (71)Posted:Jul 25, 2008-3:07 PM
By: clipton(Member)

re WILLIAMDMCCRUM's last two posts: Yes, the main title of Lawrence was referred to as the "home" theme . . . but, it's so "unexpected," and unique - not referencing any other film music I know of; and, to my ears, different from any of Jarre's other compositions - that I've always wondered if it was based on something else -- and I don't mean that in any negative sense. I think the main title is absolutely wonderful . . . one of the pieces of film music that inspired my passion for soundtracks for the past 45 years.

I think Bolt did a brilliant job writing the Lawrence screenplay; but, I read Michael Wilson's attempt -- which he worked on with Lean over a period of a year in a Swiss hotel, and for which he got paid $100,000 from what I remember. Quite frankly, Wilson's actual script was not acceptable: the fascinating personal themes that Bolt explored were largely missing; all of the British characters sounded like the same person (no kidding!); and dramatically, the whole thing just wasn't good. It's very obvious why Lean hired Bolt. However, I DO believe Wilson deserved to share credit with Bolt because Wilson's script had virtually all of the scene settings that ended up in Bolt's version. And, if you're familiar with Seven Pillars, a Lawrence screenwriter would be "adrift in a sea of infinite possibilities" when it came to actually structuring the story -- there's SO MUCH to choose from. And, there's no getting around it, the structure of Bolt's script adheres very closely to Wilson's version. But, then again, Bolt's script is brilliant, and Wilson's was a disaster. Apparently, there were similar problems re Carl Foreman's version of Kwai vs the final version that Lean apparently completed on his own.

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (76)Posted:Jul 26, 2008-8:32 PM
By: clipton(Member)

One final thing re Lawrence's structure: At the risk of sounding pretentious, beyond the film's dramatic arc, Lawrence, from what I can see, is fashioned along the lines of classic Greek tragedy: a man's precipitous fall from the heights of hubris; the loss of everything meaningful in his life, and his ultimate destruction . . . or the destruction of his soul. In the film, Lawrence loses innocence, sense of self, his humanity, his supposed "cause," his friends, Prince Feisal and Allenby ("We are equally glad to be rid of him"); and his great love: the desert ("I hope to never see the desert again, so help me God"). Another film - and play - that was fashioned after Greek tragedy was Death of A Salesman, with its depiction of Willy Loman's tragic arc and fall. I only write the above to hopefully clarify that Lawrence is NOT anti-climactic -- but, instead, has perhaps the oldest, and most classic dramatic structure of all.

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (81)Posted:Jul 26, 2008-8:40 PM
By: clipton(Member)

BTW, does anyone have an update about the rumored plans for a new re-recording of the Lawrence score -- that's been floating around the last few months?

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (87)Posted:Jul 27, 2008-6:27 AM
By: WILLIAMDMCCRUM(Member)

When I say that 'Lawrence' is anti-climactic, I don't mean that in the 'inexorable fate' Greek sense. I mean it in the more superficial 'Hollywood resolution' sense, where you aim for a cliffhanger, and then a ride off onto happy sunset. It's in the context of 'predictability'.

Yes, Larry of Araby is Greek and tragic, but even there, you could have a 'Julius Caesar' bloodbath, or a self-destructive Mishima/Hamlet thing as a big dramatic climax, but this story arcs in a different way. It's the nature of cinema or opera to try to pull off a 'biggie' near the end, just so that audiences want to stick with it until curtain.

My criticism would be of the oft taken stance by a few film critics that 'Lawrence' doesn't pace itself that way, or lacks a rip-roaring finale. Why should it?

As regards 'Lawrence', Tadlow music (they of ye Cid) have reconstructed all the parts and even have them mocked up on the software. I believe it's their next restoration project, when they're not producing new OSTs for new films. I hope they'll forgive me if I'm gun-jumping.

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (92)Posted:Jul 28, 2008-2:45 AM
By: clipton(Member)

When I say that 'Lawrence' is anti-climactic, I don't mean that in the 'inexorable fate' Greek sense. I mean it in the more superficial 'Hollywood resolution' sense, where you aim for a cliffhanger, and then a ride off onto happy sunset. It's in the context of 'predictability'.

Yes, Larry of Araby is Greek and tragic, but even there, you could have a 'Julius Caesar' bloodbath, or a self-destructive Mishima/Hamlet thing as a big dramatic climax, but this story arcs in a different way. It's the nature of cinema or opera to try to pull off a 'biggie' near the end, just so that audiences want to stick with it until curtain.

My criticism would be of the oft taken stance by a few film critics that 'Lawrence' doesn't pace itself that way, or lacks a rip-roaring finale. Why should it?

As regards 'Lawrence', Tadlow music (they of ye Cid) have reconstructed all the parts and even have them mocked up on the software. I believe it's their next restoration project, when they're not producing new OSTs for new films. I hope they'll forgive me if I'm gun-jumping.

Thanks for the Tadlow info. Re your above comments, I think movies have definitely conditioned audiences to expect big endings, etc. And, Julius Caesar aside, what about King Lear's inexorable arc and other Shakespeare tragedies? I find the Lawrence tragic arc hugely satisfying . . . and, of course, there was a bloodbath; just not at the end.

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (97)Posted:Jul 28, 2008-3:47 AM
By: panavision(Member)

Even if I didn't find Lawrence of Arabia one of the biggest wastes of time, ever put on film, it is utterly pointless to go to an IMAX theater to see a scope picture. P O I N T L E S S

I find myself stunned by comments like that.

A waste of time?

Not only is it an interesting biopic about an interesting man, but look what it explores:

(a) how politicians exploit neurotics when heroes are needed, then reject them.

(b) the dangers of psychological inflation

(c) what happens when you give guns to developing countries

(d) the psychology of desert-lovers and sado-masochism

(e) the politics of colonialism

(f) clashes of identity between cultures

(g) a good authentic depiction of the Bedouin in the early 20th Century ....

And look at the cinematography, the acting, the music, the cratsmanship, the art, the spectacle...

Now, we're going to hear something like, 'Everybody's entitled to their opinion: get over it', or something of that ilk. But here's a question:

If NONE of the above has any DIRECT relevance to you, then where have you been living? You'll find that people go through stuff like that every day, and it's ALL relevant, and very well handled ... and the writing.

Now, no disrespect to 'Speed Racer' but what exactly does THAT say to you that will affect your life?

I'm sort of stunned really.

Lawrence becomes a God only to be shot and brought back to reality.
He becomes a victim of his own success.

Good stuff, Will. LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (98)

Lawrence, in my opinion, is the greatest film ever made.

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (103)Posted:Jul 28, 2008-1:35 PM
By: clipton(Member)

Lawrence, in my opinion, is the greatest film ever made.

I agree . . . and look at the influence it's had on some of our top film makers: Scorcese, Spielberg, etc.

While I'm at it, best short film I've ever seen: Robert Enrico's Academy Award winning An Occurrence At Owl Creek Bridge. What's really interesting is that all other attempts at turning Ambrose Bierce's (sp?) short story into film (including an Alfred Hitchcock Presents effort)were pathetic -- although, I read there was a recent attempt, but I was never able to find it. They even tried at USC film school when I was a student there, and the end result was really bad. Enrico's Occurrence is IMHO what "cinema" is all about.

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (109)Posted:Jul 28, 2008-2:21 PM
By: WILLIAMDMCCRUM(Member)

Lawrence becomes a God only to be shot and brought back to reality.
He becomes a victim of his own success.

The thing about that screenplay is that it's so concise. Every line either opens up a new thread, or unpacks something earlier. The 'inflation' where Lawrence indeed sees himself as a god, is captured in the scene where, crossing Sinai, he thinks himself Moses, but then drops his compass. That simple little plot device is SO concise, and so VISUAL. Despite the 'wordy' script, it isn't verbose ... every line is economical.

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (115)Posted:Jul 28, 2008-2:24 PM
By: WILLIAMDMCCRUM(Member)

Lawrence, in my opinion, is the greatest film ever made.

While I'm at it, best short film I've ever seen: Robert Enrico's Academy Award winning An Occurrence At Owl Creek Bridge. What's really interesting is that all other attempts at turning Ambrose Bierce's (sp?) short story into film (including an Alfred Hitchcock Presents effort)were pathetic -- although, I read there was a recent attempt, but I was never able to find it. They even tried at USC film school when I was a student there, and the end result was really bad. Enrico's Occurrence is IMHO what "cinema" is all about.

That's funny: I was thinking about that story yesterday, I dunno why. Isn't that the one where a soldier is being hanged and 'escapes'? I was actually wondering if there was ever a film: now I learn there are several!

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (120)Posted:Jul 28, 2008-5:05 PM
By: clipton(Member)

Lawrence, in my opinion, is the greatest film ever made.

While I'm at it, best short film I've ever seen: Robert Enrico's Academy Award winning An Occurrence At Owl Creek Bridge. What's really interesting is that all other attempts at turning Ambrose Bierce's (sp?) short story into film (including an Alfred Hitchcock Presents effort)were pathetic -- although, I read there was a recent attempt, but I was never able to find it. They even tried at USC film school when I was a student there, and the end result was really bad. Enrico's Occurrence is IMHO what "cinema" is all about.

That's funny: I was thinking about that story yesterday, I dunno why. Isn't that the one where a soldier is being hanged and 'escapes'? I was actually wondering if there was ever a film: now I learn there are several!

Re the Lawrence dialogue: In addition to its intelligence, wit and dramatic elements, what IMHO makes it so unique and wonderful is its cinematic "rhythm" -- both within a scene, and in forming a bridge to a subsequent ones. Bolt truly understood the "music" of words, and in Lawrence, to my ears it's a symphony. I think Lean also played a major role in the construction of this "rhythm" -- the only other film (outside of Man For All Seasons) that I can think of that approximates the Lawrence "rhythm" is Kwai.

BTW WILLIAMDMCCRUM - you MUST try to get hold of Robert Enrico's Occurrence At Owl Creek Bridge! Yes, it's about a man being hanged during the Civil War. It's pure cinema, virtually no dialogue; filmed in black and white which IMHO actually adds to the surreal harshness of the story. It's a brilliant piece of filmmaking -- about twenty two minutes long. Forget the other attempts, this one is gold -- although, as mentioned earlier, I've been unable to find the most recent rendition.

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (124)
LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (125)Posted:Jul 29, 2008-1:40 AM
By: panavision(Member)

Lawrence becomes a God only to be shot and brought back to reality.
He becomes a victim of his own success.

The thing about that screenplay is that it's so concise. Every line either opens up a new thread, or unpacks something earlier. The 'inflation' where Lawrence indeed sees himself as a god, is captured in the scene where, crossing Sinai, he thinks himself Moses, but then drops his compass. That simple little plot device is SO concise, and so VISUAL. Despite the 'wordy' script, it isn't verbose ... every line is economical.

I think I may have missed that. I need to watch it again LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (126) Every viewing does unravel a thread previously knotted.

Speilberg watches it before making a film. I wonder if he watched it before making Indy 4...?

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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (128)
LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (129)
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LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (131)
LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, SPEED RACER on IMAX screen (132)Posted:Jul 29, 2008-5:21 AM
By: Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt(Member)

Speilberg watches it before making a film. I wonder if he watched it before making Indy 4...?

He intended to, but somebody switched the print of Lawrence of Arabia for one of Plan 9 From Outer Space.

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